Do People Need Dating Coaching?

OPW -- June 16 -- I'm presently at the Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, in the French Concession, Shanghai. Irena is sitting next to me and we're IM-ing discussing the conversation of a Chinese girl and a German guy sitting right in front of us. I know, we shouldn't be listening in, but hey, they're talking quite loudly and they're right in front of us, so we can't help it. The Chinese girl speaks perfect English and is very attentive and obviously into the guy. In terms of looks, I think HotorNot would score the Chinese girl a 6.5 and the guy 7.5. (I'm a 6.8 on HotorNot, and Irena is a 7 on PlentyoFish).

The guy is 27, graduated in 2001, considered doing an MBA...and here we go, after 30 minutes of talking, 95% of it from him. "I could have left the company for Microsoft...but maybe I don't want to go back to IT."  (He's laughing at his own jokes and she's trying hard). "There's all these positive feelings because they've been working with me, and they know me...The GM was there...How were we going to report to the U.S...Anytime things would get tough, we would always delegate...I'm a Marketing Director, but because I only had 9 months left I felt, why should I waste my time..." Ten minutes later he's still talking about work. Two good looking people, obviously smart, but they need help. He needs to get off his high horse and let the poor girl talk. Women like to talk and are attracted and switched on by guys when they listen ,actively and attentively. If a woman isn't talking at least as much as a guy on a date, something is wrong.

Twenty minutes later and he's still at it. Please, internet dating industry, help them! Provide personalized coaching services. ~30% of internet dating users could use some coaching. ~10% of internet daters would pay for coaching and matchmaking services, so I hear. OK, time for a cuppa tea, I have to escape this guy.

Comments

[Shimrit]

I think maybe you've hit on a cultural difference here? I know in some cultures women tend to be quieter and more reserved around men, which I gather is one of the reasons such women have such appeal to the type of arrogant Western guys who don't necessarily like the thought of having women as equals. I am not sure how it is in Chinese culture, but I understand that traditional Japanese culture is/was like that, as well as others. I think Chinese culture used to be heavily geared towards marrying off girls at any cost (foot binding, anyone?), which may mean there are still remnants of this form of education left even after most of society has moved on. Even here, there are still some dating etiquette schools of thought that teach women to let the man talk about himself a lot, rather than talk about themselves "too much". I can't imagine why any woman would want to be with a guy who thinks that's a good idea, but there you go!
I think people need more than simple date coaching to get over such things. They need a complete re-education about gender roles.

[Kathryn Lord]

Yea, Mark! Let's hear it for coaching for singles who are looking for love! While there are plenty of singles who are good daters and have all the relationship skills they need, I find that these folks tend to have already HAD one or more long term relationships and/or have been married. There are skills you learn by being in a relationship that you can't learn any other way. These singles are the most likely to easily find a mate and develop the long term relationship they desire.

However with the never-married or relationshiped, or the long-term singles (maybe 10 years or more by themselves), these sophisticated skills are rusty or missing altogether. The easiest explanation might be that there are reasons these folks are are still single. Either their lifestyle or decision making keeps them single, no matter what their conscious intent is, or their lack of interpersonal skills (like the German man you describe) gets in the way.

While "corrective learning experiences" might help a guy like this German (maybe an observant buddy could take him aside and tell him to relax, stop trying to impress, and advise that he ask questions and listen to his date), for many long term singles, more in-depth work could be needed. Helping singles understand their self-sabotaging behavior might be more of a job for a psychotherapist, or for a coach who also has mental health training. This is not the norm amongst folks calling themselves dating coaches, so look carefully at the background the coach brings. I have had more than 30 years experience as a psychotherapist, five plus years as a Romance Coach, AND I met my husband on a dating site in 1998. I don't know of any other coach who can claim that kind of experience.

The majority of my clients are women over 40. These women need basic support in proactively taking control of their romantic life. Most have never asked for a date, or made the first move. Many feel quite beaten down by the current obsession on looks and youth. But once they get the taste of having some control in the action, these women take off.

The third of my clients who are men do seem more in need of basic skills coaching. In many ways, they seem more crippled in their dating and relationship skills. The "dating coaches" for men out there who are advocating being "cocky and funny" as basically a way to get laid do not seem to be what is necessary for these men who are lonely and aching for a partner.

Kathryn Lord
Romance Coach

[Julie Ferman]

Can single daters and love seekers benefit from dating coaching? Oh, my goodness, Yes.

Today's dating culture is so complex, and yet I firmly believe that it's the best time ever to be dating and to be creating relationships...because we have tools and resources like never before to enable a more successful dating experience. Dating coaches are here to help and are doing just that.

It's important also to select the right type of dating coach - If the goal is relationship or partnership or marriage, registering with Cupid's Coach is a free and easy first step, as we offer a full menu of dating coaching options, from free telephone consultations to high end, intensive coaching with our 3-6 month personal matchmaking packages.
http://www.CupidsCoach.com
or email me and I'm happy to send you my audio CD, "Marketing Yourself for Romance"

Other dating coaches whose advice you'll want to check out:

Evan Marc Katz
Jeannine Kaiser
Keri Newell
Cherry Norris
Kathryn Lord
Christian Carter

And this audio CD set from Alison Armstrong is slam dunk amazing.
https://www.cupidscoach.com/Item.asp?id=6

See whose dating advice resonates with you and have fun studying, learning, and growing.

Happy Dating!

Julie Ferman
Founder, CEO
Cupid's Coach
[email protected]
805 371 9557

[James Houran]

Dating coaches are definitely needed by some consumers. Consumers also seem to seize upon more formalized coaching services when they are made convenient, cost effective and credible (I call this the 3 C's).

The credibility facet is especially underemphasized, in my opinion. Credible dating coaches are not ones that draw from their own dating experience (which may or may not be accurate or even relevant to another person), but rather credible coaches apply the available academic literature on love and attachment. A good coach knows how to translate such models and concepts to lay audiences and subsequently motivate them to put them into consistent practice. Coaching advice can also be automated to some degree if feedback systems are integrated with testing and assessment engines (like personality, compatibility, etc.). In fact, my team is working on this right now.

Thus, I urge people to conduct proper due diligence on dating coaches before electing their services. Don't be overly impressed with credits that involve media appearances and "books" written. Incompetent people also have these items on their resumes. Instead, consumers should ask for references and the educational and training background of the available coaches. Finally, the interpersonal chemistry between a coach and a customer should not be overlooked -- assuming a customer wants that one-on-one contact. If a customer neither connects with nor respects a dating coach, any guidance and motivation (as credible and solid as they may be) will be useless.

Thanks,

James Houran, Ph.D.
Online Dating Magazine

[Cherry Norris]

Yes indeed. Many single people need dating coaching.

I did when I was single. I even wrote, directed and produced a feature length romantic comedy on this very topic. The film is called "DUTY DATING" and it's about a woman who on the advice of a love doctor, does all the right things to marry the wrong man. The premise is based on the teachings of Dr. Pat Allen, Ph.D, who is an expert in the area of romantic relationships and communication between men and women. After completing the film, I used what I learned to marry my husband five years ago and have been a dating coach ever since.

In the exchange between the German man and the Chinese woman, I found a typical scenerio of a man (who I appreciate can come off as arrogant, clumsy and uninterested in a woman) was actually doing what masculine men do best...he was listing his qualifications as if he were on an interview applying for a position of "boyfriend".

Generally men on the first date will do one of two things...they will speak a lot, listing their credentials or they will interview the woman to see how her value systems, goals, etc. fit into his plan. I personally see nothing wrong the German man did. I imagine he was nervous and doing the best he could. Dating is an awkward custom at best! It is in a woman's advantage to have the man speak about himself. If she's skilled, she'll recognize that he's doing his best to "audition" for her and is giving her a lot of information about himself so she can determine if he's an appropriate mate.

Women who speak too much on a first date out of nerves, habit or wanting to "perform" for a man are masculine women. They risk turning a man off more than endearing him to her. He could think, "this woman has so much going on that she doesn't need me. I need to find a woman who's more available to what I have to offer."

That being said, if the German man continued to "date" the Chinese woman and never asked her questions or gave her the opportunity to speak, that could be a problem. In my opinion, this would be a man who's in relationship with himself and there isn't any room for another person.

In my experience, understanding the roles men and women play in relationships and how communication and behavior affects the outcome is invaluable. It's unfortunate that in today's society, we as a whole are so uneducated about romantic relationships that the number of singles increase daily.

Can singles benefit from dating coaches? Absolutely.

However, I believe two details are necessary...

1. Is the single willing to look at their own behavior and take a risk on changing it to get a different result? Many singles believe there's something wrong with everyone else and refuse to look at themselves.

2. What are the qualifications of the dating coach? There are many people who put that label on themselves and have little or no knowledge of how relationships really work. I think this can be more destructive than helpful.

Here's to success in love!

Cherry Norris
The Dating Director
[email protected]
www.datingdirector.com

[Matt]

There is no question in my mind that 75% of guys dating online need coaching: Much more so than women I presume. That percentage dates online because of the inability to approach off line. They cannot cold approach in a coffee house or bookstore. And if they did cold approach they cannot properly escalate the interaction to a desired outcome. As a result, they date from scarcity, and put too much importance on the date met from the internet. They cut out components of the dating process that require the most courage - approaching. This is because they are too afraid of rejection. Rejection on a cold approach is much riskier than rejection from an internet date. As a result, they become lost and emasculate themselves by only dating online. I interpret the example above as a dating issue in America, not a cultural issue.

All the best,
Matt (the barista)
It's Just Coffee

[James Houran]

Art,

You are a really dating coach? Your communication skills, interpersonal demeanor and apparently poor reading and comprehension abilities suggest that you are the one who needs a coach.

I'd recommend Marc Katz or Kathryn Lord. These are coaches I respect because they utilize actual academic research in addition to what you may call "common sense" or "everyday, lowly experience." And I also recommend you read OnlineDatingMagazine.com. It's no ivory tower -- just a great resource of free information based on sound clinical practice and real science.

The public needs good and responsible education about love and relationships, not hype, crap or the equivalent of social science "snake oil" from so-called coaches or other "experts" with no credibility who "wing it" based on their instincts, unjustified beliefs or what they think works for them.

Thx,

James Houran, Ph.D.
Online Dating Magazine

[Rori Raye]

Very cool - all these terrific comments from dating coaches. Everyone could use help with some area of their lives. We can't all have all our bases covered...we may be great at making money and wretched at telling a good man from one who means you ill. We may be great at making friends and terrible at romance. We may be fearless in sports and terrified in love. We may not feel motivated to do the work you have to do to succeed at something you think should just happen "naturally." The truth is, if we want something, and we don't have it - there's something standing in our way. Usually ourselves. That's where a coach comes in handy. Sincerely, Rori Raye

[Mark Brooks]

Guys should watch more romance movies. There, I said it.

Now if only I could go and get Irena (my wife) to go and see Star Trek with me. :-)

[free online dating]

i don't think coaching would necessarily help, its really all about personality and if yourself to interact with someone in a certain way, you are not being yourself, you are acting to get past the first hurdles and that isn't really going to get you a loving relationship. Fine if you are just looking for a one night stand, but if you are looking for a relationship, you should really start as you mean to go on, instead of giving false impressions to make yourself look good

[Barb Elgin, MSW, LCSW]

Hmmm...love seeing a topic generating lots of discussion. So, of course I have to put in my 'three cents'. I say three because, I'm a love coach who specializes in dating and relationship coaching lesbian and gay men.

I've received specialized training in the subject by an established, credible, relationship coaching school - The Relationship Coaching Institute. I'm also an experienced psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience, including tons of experience working with couples.

I rely on established science and practice in coaching my clients. Most issues gays and lesbians face when it comes to dating and relationships are similar to those experienced by straight folks. However, there are plenty of differences too. As well as differences between gay men and lesbian women.

Most importantly, it's a relief for many of my clients to have a coach they can be fully themselves with and, know they won't be judged.

It's frustrating seeing dating sites ignore the great services we provide. I am always open to collaborating with those 'smart' dating sites who see the value in what I, and other love coaches, provide. Eventually, these are the sites that will rise to the top!